In this interview, Gay Therapy Center Director & Founder Adam Blum speaks with dating coach Trevor Kuhn about common mistakes gay men make when it comes to dating, as well as important things to consider to improve your gay dating experience.
Run time: 25 minutes
Below is a transcript of their conversation about top dating mistakes gay men make, and what you can do to avoid them:
Adam Blum
Welcome Trevor, to the Gay Therapy Center.
Trevor Kuhn
Hi, Adam, how are you?
Adam Blum
I’m great. It’s good to have you here. This is Trevor Kuhn, and I became interested in his work when I found him on Instagram, and I felt while he was talking about some hard truths about dating, specifically gay dating that I hadn’t seen other people talk about. So I wanted everyone to hear his perspective.
Adam Blum
We all know gay dating is one of the hardest things we may ever do, and the more perspectives and support we get, the better. So I’m going to jump right in with Trevor. He’s a gay dating coach and love coach based in Manhattan.
Adam Blum
Okay, so the first question is, I’ve heard you speak a lot about the culture of gay men, particularly the beauty culture that we find in gay communities. And I’m curious about how you see that impacting men who are dating.
Trevor Kuhn
Yeah, I really, I see it at an increasing level. The, of course, with the rise of social media and the ability to, you know, create an online persona, there’s this high focus on aesthetics. And, you know, you said, beauty, that’s a, I mean, that encompasses, you know, esthetics and fitness. And, you know, I’m all for being healthy and fit, and, you know, presenting that healthy version of yourself. But it becomes like, at some point, it becomes self objectification.
Trevor Kuhn
And I worry, you know, I’m not, I’m not in touch as much with, you know, young people, you know, and people under 25, but this is what they’ve grown up on, right? The imagery. And I mean gay men in general, we’ve always had, we’ve always had sexual imagery in our culture. But I think it’s, now it’s, becomes this expectation that you have got to be hot in order to find somebody, attract somebody, and it’s, it’s leading to high levels of insecurity and self esteem issues.
Trevor Kuhn
And so I, you know, I don’t want this to sound like doom and gloom, like we’re, there’s, there’s no way around this. But I do think it impacts the dating scene negatively when we focus so much on aesthetics, as like, the number one driver in attraction.
Adam Blum
I see. So, you notice that among some gay men and some of your clients that they’re focusing on how attractive is this potential date, rather than perhaps some other attributes?
Trevor Kuhn
So, yeah, I mean, I, I think with my clients, they understand that attraction goes much deeper than the physical, and they’re looking at at, you know, ways of creating meaningful connection, which I think we is what we need to get to. We need to see beyond the superficial and and connect with people who have like interests, who share our values. And of course, you know, there needs to be a physical attraction, yes,but without putting certain archetypes of gay men on a pedestal. One like, that’s what I need to achieve, or two, that’s what I, that’s what I need to go for. In terms of, if I canhave a, you know, a boyfriend like that, like, I’ll be happy.
Adam Blum
Right, right. I mean, I think we all love beauty. Who doesn’t love beautiful men? Of course!
Trevor Kuhn
Yeah.
Adam Blum
But if we’re sort of too focused on it, it may speak to some insecurity within ourselves, right?
Trevor Kuhn
Yeah.
Adam Blum
We may not feel comfortable with somebody who’s not a 10, or we’re not seen with somebody who’s a 10 or a nine, on some scale.
Trevor Kuhn
Yeah, well, and I’ve talked about this with friendships too. You know, we we do, and I think growing up like I obviously, as a gay man, I knew who the attractive men were. And, you know, without even, you know, being out or knowing that I was gay like I was attracted to the good looking boys in high school. And so, you know, I don’t have an answer for solving that at an adolescent level.
Trevor Kuhn
But you know, we have a certain maturity now, you know, when you enter your 30s and 40s, I hope you can see beyond those, you know high school, college, you know crushes or whatnot, and realize, oh, people are so much more complex and dynamic than what we see on the surface, and there’s so much to be attracted to about a person other than the size of their muscles or some other physical attributes.
Adam Blum
Mhm, yeah.
Trevor Kuhn
Yeah.
Adam Blum
And the hotness of someone you’re dating can grow, right? As you get to know them, they become, often, hotter to you.
Trevor Kuhn
Oh yeah.
Adam Blum
Because you’re seeing beyond just the physical, and you’re seeing part of their soul. And that can be, it’s actually exciting.
Trevor Kuhn
Well, that’s a good point, because not only can your attraction to someone grow, like, physically. You know, you get to know someone and you’re like, oh, I really wasn’t that drawn to them at first, like, physically, but they grew on me, and we’ve connected physically, and we’ve connected emotionally, and they’re so hot to me, right? You can, you can get that, but you can also separate that hotness from, you know, the visual manifestation of that, for lack of a better word.
Trevor Kuhn
Because what happens is, you can, you can be with someone who everyone thinks is hot, but that’s, that’s what everyone else sees.
Adam Blum
Oh yeah.
Trevor Kuhn
Oh, he’s got such a hot boyfriend, or that that couple’s so hot and that’s all people see,because they’re only looking with their eyes, they’re not part of that relationship. And even if you’re with someone that you thought was hot at the beginning, that suddenly that hotness becomes almost like a background feature. Like, wow, that’s cool that I’mwith this guy who’s good looking, but that’s not what I see every day, that’s what otherpeople see.
Adam Blum
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it can be for some people a little vulnerable to go beyond hotness, right? It’s a maybe a little scary to go, Oh, I like that guy, but maybe he doesn’t quite meet some beauty standard that I think other people find important.
Trevor Kuhn
Yeah. Can I make that leap, and it might just feel a little scary, you know, to do that.
Trevor Kuhn
Yeah, it’s, it’s, can be scary, but its, if you think of it as limiting, and like we already as as gay men, bi men, you know, if, men who you know want to be with men, it’s, it’s already a limiting existence. So if we are now weighing people based on their attractiveness, and oftentimes it’s what we think their attractiveness is as perceived byothers. Like and so it’s, hey, I want arm candy, you know, like this is the whole concept of a trophy wife. Like that bleeds into into our culture as well, but it doesn’t translate into fulfillment or happiness.
Adam Blum
Mhm, yeah.
Trevor Kuhn
And so we have to really think, how am I limiting myself here, by putting beauty on a pedestal? Because there’s plenty of guys who aren’t 10s who would be tremendous partners, and I’m not seeing that because I’m laser focused. It doesn’t have to be a 10, right, Adam, but it there is like sort of a hierarchy that sort of permeates gay society.
Adam Blum
Yeah, I’m glad we’re talking about this, because it is pretty prevalent. Related to this, you’ve also spoken about spark and chemistry, and what that means in a new relationship or in dating, and sometimes the focus on that. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?
Trevor Kuhn
Yes. So I actually did a whole podcast episode about the spark. Modern Gays is a podcast led by a couple in in Melbourne, Australia, and we talked about this. They’re married, and one of them’s from Los Angeles. But anyway, we we talked about that spark and how it can fade, and often does, probably 100% of time. That’s that initial spark that people feel, where they’re like the butterflies and love at first sight, or whatever you want to call it, that doesn’t last.
Trevor Kuhn
A spark is almost, it’s a moment, and you know whether it lasts a few weeks or a few months during a honeymoon phase, what you and I just just addressed a few minutes ago was you can someone might become more hot over time. Someone also might become less hot over time. It depends on the connection. That initial spark isn’t necessarily the connection, it’s just an idea. And I really think that a lot, I will say, a lot of my clients are like, Oh, I just haven’t felt anything with someone for a while. I don’t know, like it’s been years, or I haven’t felt anything since my last relationship.
Trevor Kuhn
And like, that’s a whole other topic, right? Because you’re, you’re basically comparing any future connections with that connection that you knew was strong, but we have to, but human relationships are are very complex. Obviously, you know that. And if we’re just like, if you’re only looking for beauty, if you’re only looking for a spark, and you’re putting that as the marker of whether or not something could work out, there you go limiting yourself again. Give yourself time to get to know someone, and if there’s, if there’s nothing there, there’s nothing there, right? But you don’t necessarily know that from one encounter, just because you didn’t feel something.
Adam Blum
Yeah, this was personal to me, because there have been situations where men have said, “Well, I’m not feeling the spark” after a date or two.
Trevor Kuhn
Yeah. Yeah, I get that. It’s we’ve all been on both sides of that, I would say. And I, and there’s no forcing anything. It’s just explore it and see. Like and also ask yourself, what does that mean? Because I’ve asked clients that too. What, when you say spark, what do you mean? And sometimes it’s oh, endless conversation. Sometimes it’s oh, just like this sort of fiery feeling that I just like want to jump their bones, you know? Okay, so it could be physical, it could be intellectual stimulation. It’s something that you feel, that isn’t the same for everybody. So ask yourself, What am I looking for? And then, you know, explore that and see if, see if there’s something there, even if it’s not there on that first date, it might develop.
Adam Blum
Right.
Trevor Kuhn
Yeah.
Adam Blum
As you say that, it’s I get the sense like we could be chasing excitement. Spark equals excitement. We love excitement, but are we chasing excitement? And I think that can be a distraction sometimes. Because excitement isn’t a steady state of life, right? It wanes.
Trevor Kuhn
Oh, totally. That we are constantly seeking distraction, distraction and we, we want, we want human beings want signs, right that, that like that, they should go forth. They’re looking for the green light. And if it’s not obviously green, they’re just like, oh, not going, not not a safe place, there’s no excitement here, I’m gonna keep looking, I’mgonna retreat. And that’s all good and well. But if that becomes a pattern, that you, that you consistently retreat or consistently, you’re looking for something more or better, then that needs to be looked at, whether with a coach or a therapist. Like patterns can last forever if they’re unchecked.
Adam Blum
Mhm. So many great relationships, I do think, start with a slow burn. So maybe not with an immediate spark, but just a slow burn, and with just a little bit more patience you get to the place where you really want to be, which is in love and committed. Yeah.
Trevor Kuhn
In love, yeah, yeah, which is sort of something that you have to commit to before even going down the path of seeking a partner, right?
Adam Blum
Commit to love, is that what you’re saying?
Trevor Kuhn
Or you’re committing to creating love with somebody. Yeah.
Adam Blum
Yeah. I like that phrase, actually. That makes me think of another question I wanted to ask you. I’ve heard, I think you’ve heard, you say, “Love is a decision.” You want to kind of expand that a little more?
Trevor Kuhn
Yeah, love is not something that happens to us. And I think that we often look, and I used to think, oh, I just want to fall in love with somebody. And I hear that quite often. And maybe that’s from, you know, fairy tale books and Hollywood, and there’s this idea that that we just fall in love, it’s, it’s out of our control, right? This person showed up and boom. Then, we’re going through life waiting for someone to show up and and we’re not taking an active part in that.
Trevor Kuhn
So I think when you are dating somebody and you’re thinking, Oh, I, I don’t know if I love them, it’s maybe it’s time for you, it may be time for you to meditate on it, or journal about it, and ask yourself, what does love mean? How do I know if I’m in love with somebody? Like at the end of the day, you it really, I really believe that it is a decision. Like, once you decide something, it starts to sort of, manifest.
Adam Blum
Mhm.
Trevor Kuhn
If you think, if you decide, oh, I don’t love this person, then it’s probably not going to happen. Just like if you decide that you were poor and you’re never gonna you’re, you know, you’re not, you’re not gonna make money, right? I’m, I’m never going to be rich, you know, unless it falls on my lap, a bunch of money. Like, well, you’re probably not, you’re not going to be rich, you know? If you’re like, oh, well, unless I fall in love, which, again, like, I have no, no way of creating that, it’s just going to happen to me. Well, it doesn’t happen to me, then I won’t be in love.
Trevor Kuhn
So, it can be can be tricky if someone’s not in my brain right now, but, but I really look back at my past relationships too, and I think at the times where I thought I was in love, versus the times where I’ve decided that I’m in love. And it’s not just like something that happened by chance. In my like, even my current relationship, like my partner and I have created a loving partnership, and that was a decision of mine earlyon. Like, even a few months in, I was like, I don’t know, like, I don’t know, does it feel like it did last time?
Adam Blum
As you’re saying this, I’m thinking, to fall in love, to love someone, is a verb, right? It’s more active. It’s something you have some control, not complete, but some control over.
Trevor Kuhn
And I was falling into that trap, and I saw it happening, and I said, that’s a distraction. What if you were to decide that this person, this person that you say you care about, what if you decide that that you love them? You can always decide not to love somebody. You can decide not to love a family member that you’ve told your entire life you love them, and then so why wouldn’t it work in the reverse? That’s sort of the way I look at it. Make it, make it happen.
Trevor Kuhn
Yeah.
Adam Blum
It’s empowering to think about it, rather than it just comes from a whim, right? Or just through by happenstance. You’ve got a little more control over the process than I think we normally think about. Primarily because I think we’re very impacted by romantic comedies and very it was very powerful in our culture.
Adam Blum
Alright next topic. Top or bottom. How is that impacting gay men in the dating scene?
Trevor Kuhn
It’s, this is different for everybody, once again. I you know. And there was also verse and sides. This came up, I did a dating workshop for men over 50 recently, and that came up. Someone said, Oh, don’t forget about sides. And everyone’s like sides, what’sthat? In essence, these are, these are sexual roles that I think, I think they are chosen. You know, I’m not, I’m not an expert on sexual roles, okay, I’m not a sex therapist. And, you know, sex comes up in my work, but in essence, I always want to approach it with this, with a sense of flexibility and openness and curiosity.
Trevor Kuhn
And so when I see guys dating and they say, oh, I, you know, I’m on a bottom and I, I’monly, I can’t seem to find a top. Or there’s, I was dating this guy, and then he changed his mind about his preferences, and we broke up. Like I see, I see this happening, and I say, well, sex is definitely an important part of a relationship. But it’s not everything, and there’s all different ways to explore intimacy, and people’s preferences and desires evolve.
Trevor Kuhn
So to, from the very get go, to say I’m only going to date a top or a bottom, I need my relationship to be an exact match. You know, why? Why do we need an exact match when it comes to sexual roles? And we, but we can be flexible everywhere, everywhere else. So I say, look at, look at that. Because again, we’re already limited. And let’s, I don’t know what, I don’t know what the percentages are, but let’s say we’re 50/50, which it’s not because we have more than just tops and bottoms, we have a lot of people who are verse and maybe they have the freest rein over the dating pool. And then we have people that don’t want to participate in anal sex, and they’re referred to as sides.
Trevor Kuhn
And so it comes down to, what do you want? What do you see as possible in your relationship? And are you limiting yourself? While I do fully understand that it would be so much easier if you could just choose one and have the, your counterpart, right? That would be so much easier. But again, human relationships are complicated and and dynamic and ever evolving. But that, yeah, that’s I’m curious what you think aboutthis, because I I talk about this a lot in the context of of being flexible and not limiting yourself.
Adam Blum
Well, one thing I know, and all sex therapists know, is, you know, the mind is, of course,the biggest sexual organ we have. And it’s very malleable. We think we’re in a narrow category, we think we only think one way, but with a openness, a little bit of breath, a little bit of expansiveness, a little bit of letting go of fears, there’s a lot more possible for us in all parts of our lives, including sex.
Trevor Kuhn
Totally.
Adam Blum
Yeah. And I think kind of what we’re saying here in this talk is try to be a little more expansive, try to open up a little bit more, not to shut down so quickly when you’re dating somebody.
Trevor Kuhn
Yeah, and I even saw in a forum or a social media post once, it might have been Twitter, I can’t remember, people would talk about their relationships. And I’ve seen people commenting, you know, it’s a lot of people like to comment on others’ relationships and what they should do. And I saw someone comment that, well, you know, if you if your roles are changing, that means you’re not compatible anymore, so you should essentially break up and find someone who, who you’re compatible with.
Trevor Kuhn
And I, I said, you know, so you just want to go through life dropping people that, that we were compatible with at one point, and suddenly, because there’s a new desire, we’re no longer compatible, out the window like start fresh? And I don’t think that’s theright approach either. I think that we’ll be, we’re never going to be 100% satisfied with every aspect of the relationship. And we are, we’re, that comes back to that commitment. I commit to finding someone to create love with, and once you find that person, then we are committing to building a life together. You know, ups, this isn’t about marriage, but it’s, you know, through the ups and downs, through many difficulties and challenges and joys. And, you know, there’s going to be an evolution, and we’re riding this ride together, ultimately.
Trevor Kuhn
You know, we don’t know what the future holds, but when it comes down to it, if it’s just, you know, at the beginning again,we look at the beginning, and I say, like, let’s be flexible here, because we might, most guys, let’s, let’s just look at it this way, Adam. Most guys haven’t been in a relationship longer than a year, and that’s that’s not being conservative. And I say, okay, because you’re not looking into the future, and you’re seeing all this stuff that isn’t working early on, and you’re jumping ship because you’re hoping to find find out that there’s going to be someone that everything works with, everything’s perfect. So it’s not going to be that way. Not five years in, not 20 years in. You will become different people, and that also can be true for your sexual preferences, roles, etc.
Adam Blum
Well, I have a whole long list of questions for you, Trevor, we’re not going to get to them.
Trevor Kuhn
Okay.
Adam Blum
I want to be sure and respect everybody’s time. Tell everybody if they want to learn more about what you do and how you do it, how they should reach you.
Trevor Kuhn
Yeah. So I’m @lovedaddytrev on Instagram, so you can follow me there if you’re not already, and you can also go to my website, https://www.lovedaddy.co/ there is a message box there my email is also listed, and you can also schedule an initial call with me. So if you you know, I do offer three or six months of relationship coaching, but if you want to just do one session, you can, you can purchase that through my website, and we can kind of get, get a get a feel for what coaching, more beyond that would would look like, depending on what your your goals are and what you’re struggling with. Yeah.
Adam Blum
Alright, well, I’m glad we did this. I think you have a lot of valuable information to share with gay men. So thanks for coming on and talking to us all today.
Trevor Kuhn
Thanks for having me and Happy Anniversary once again.
Adam Blum
Thanks. All right, bye bye.
Trevor Kuhn
Bye.
